Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: For many of us, the Monday through Friday five day work week is just a fact of life. But there's a new concept starting to catch on in education, at least in Arkansas. An increasing number of school districts are switching to a four day per week calendar. Here in northwest Arkansas, one district made the switch this school year, and at least three other districts are planning to do the same starting next school year. We're going to explore why on this week's edition of the Know the news podcast.
Hi, everyone. I'm Dave Perozyk, managing editor of the Northwest Arkansas Democratic Gazette and your podcast host this week. Joining me, I'm pleased to introduce a pair of school district superintendents from northwest Arkansas, Doctor Marianne Spears, superintendent of the Lincoln School district, which implemented the four day per week model this school year, and Doctor Steven Watkins, superintendent of the Decatur school District in Bend county, which recently decided to shift to four days a week starting this fall.
Thanks to both of you for being here. And, doctor Spears, let's start with you. Lincoln decided last year to take the leap and takes back to the last year when you made that decision to go to four days.
What was thinking at that time?
[00:01:30] Speaker B: So, of course, we knew of 30 plus schools that had developed that or went to the four day week prior. I'd had some interest in that. And then our board members had attended the state conference in December of that previous year, and they had gone to a panel discussion on the four day week and were intrigued by that. So they were all on board. So, you know, I told someone we had a podcast last night that, you know, it's good to have your board. You know, they're the ones that are actually going to approve that. So we had full cooperation with all five board members, and then we floated it out to our teachers at some teacher meetings last January. They were all on board. And then we started having some community meetings, January, February last year, and then the calendar was approved in March.
[00:02:22] Speaker A: All right, so you're about three quarters of a year into this. Tell us about the results.
[00:02:28] Speaker B: So, so far, I mean, our main motivation for it at the time was teacher retention and recruitment. We, we have struggled as a small district. Our pay wasn't as comparable to the, you know, especially, I call them the big four districts here in northwest Arkansas. So we would get brand new teachers, we would train them up two or three years, and then they would move on down the road, even next door, even as close as 6 miles away, and make more money. Now with the learns act, that kind of took that little piece out of the puzzle for us, but we didn't have any trouble recruiting retention. Right now I have. I have two positions open. I had one. I had a football coach leave to go take over family business. And I've got a special ed teacher moving to Houston with a new husband for his job. So everybody else is staying. I've got. My elementary have zero turnover so far, and usually I'm hiring 15 to 20 new staff members each year. So already we're seeing that. We're seeing great morale. Morale has been the biggest. Just attitudes, climate, culture, you know, that's been a big piece.
Our teacher of attendance, our student attendance has improved. Everyone tries to get those appointments and things done on those Mondays.
Our discipline at the high school has almost gone to nothing. Like they're not having hardly any discipline issues. Kids are happier. Kids are excited. I had a parent tell me just yesterday that they do this travel ball on the weekends and sometimes they get home really late on Sunday nights. And it's nice to have that Monday to kind of recuperate and get back and get ready for their week. So we've had nothing but positives we've had to do so far. We've done a makeup Monday for weather. And that five day week was brutal. Our teachers, you know, they were. Please don't. Let's go. Let's not go back to five days a week or whatever. So we're still all on board. Our community is still supportive. So, I mean, we're. We're pressing on.
[00:04:29] Speaker A: So you don't anticipate going back to five days?
[00:04:32] Speaker B: No, not. Not on my watch.
I like it, too.
[00:04:39] Speaker A: And you've been there for.
In charge there for. Is it ten years?
[00:04:45] Speaker B: Uh, I think I'm finishing eleven as soup. Okay. Yeah, I've been with the District 19.
[00:04:50] Speaker A: So, um, the disciplinary thing was that you mentioned is a little bit surprising.
[00:05:00] Speaker B: I know. Yeah, that was. Yeah.
But a welcome. A welcome surprise, for sure.
[00:05:07] Speaker A: And I apologize if you mentioned attendance.
[00:05:10] Speaker B: Is that student attendance has been better, you know, and attendance on a month, we take off Monday, so attendance on a Monday was tricky anyway, with, with students and staff. So attendance has approved on all levels.
[00:05:27] Speaker A: Doctor Watkins, when did you start exploring the schedule and when did Decatur settle on going that direction?
[00:05:36] Speaker C: Absolutely, Dave. Thanks for having me on this morning.
Decatur started actually looking at the four day week four years ago. We took a trip down to Kirby, who was one of the first schools in Arkansas to implement the four day week. And so we went down there and looked at that and really began the conversations about four years ago, and then COVID hit, and so we pushed pause on making any major changes while we were navigating, you know, all the challenges that COVID brought to us. And then we revisited it last year and had some community meetings and was really developed our schedule and was really looking at it last year. And then learns came about. And again, we felt like another major change with the Learns act. Probably on top of trying to switch to a four day schedule wasn't a great idea for us. In hindsight, I wish we'd have switched last year.
Listening to Marianne talk about all the benefits that she is seeing from her school. So this year, with no major changes in the school year, we decided to make the switch for next year. And my board is fully supportive. My teachers are really happy that they are going to be able to enjoy that four day work week next year.
[00:07:06] Speaker A: Because you've also struggled to retain teachers.
[00:07:13] Speaker C: Absolutely. That was the driving force behind us. Looking at the four day week for four years ago, you know, Decatur, situated right here in the middle of northwest Arkansas. So you go either any direction from Decatur and you'll find a higher paying teaching job, especially, you know, four years ago when we were at the state, minimum, I believe, was 32,000 at that time. So, you know, any direction my teachers went, you would find, you know, higher paying jobs, and we were in the same boat as Marianne. You know, we would get new teachers, or we would get AOP teachers and get them trained for those three years, and then they would leave us. So it was a constant turnover for our staff, which makes it hard to implement. You know, we're big into PlC's and things like that, and it's hard to implement curriculum and get stability in your staff if you're always turning over, you know, a large amount of staff. We have about 50 staff members that are certified at Decatur, and it's not unusual for me to replace ten to 15 of them every year.
So getting that stability in the staff was the major driving force behind us looking at the four day week.
But I'm really excited looking at some of the research that we're seeing now coming out of discipline and school climate and culture improving, it's probably one of the most exciting things to me about the four day week coming up for us to experience, because, as Marianne said, you know, with the Learns act, the salary is kind of equalized at this point.
[00:08:55] Speaker A: When does your board make the decision?
[00:08:59] Speaker C: We approved it in February.
We approved our new calendar in February, and we're making some tweaks to it. And then we will post that pretty soon. I can tell you that we are already advertising as we begin the hiring process for next year. At this point, usually I have, you know, seven or eight teachers that have decided they've wanted to leave. I've only had three at this point.
And they're in high needs areas, which special ed and upper level math, which is my algebra two, my pre calculus classes, things like that. And I've already got those filled with experienced candidates, which is those two positions we usually struggle and usually have to end up hiring on an AlP for those positions in the past. And again with, and I'm giving this credit to this, to the four day week of getting good quality applicants already for those two positions. And we have those hired right now.
[00:10:06] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:10:07] Speaker A: We're going to take a quick break and be right back after this brief message. Stick with us.
[00:10:13] Speaker D: If you're enjoying this podcast, consider a newspaper subscription to the Northwest Arkansas Democrat Gazette or the River Valley Democrat Gazette. We have a special offer for our podcast listeners, so visit nwA online.com nwapodcast to get started. You can also click the subscribe button on our websites, nwaonline.com and rivervalleydemocrategazette.com dot. Or call us at 479-684-5509 and be sure to say that you're a podcast listener. Now back to the show.
[00:10:43] Speaker A: I don't mean to inject any negativity here, but got to ask, there has to be at least one downside to this concept.
Doctor Spears, any drawbacks that you've observed to consider for any district, you know.
[00:11:02] Speaker B: Found a downside yet? I don't know. We're just. We're. We're just in, um. I mean, most, most everything's been positive. Um, you know, we even, you know, we. We worried about, you know, childcare and things for that, that Monday, and we offered. We offered something, and we just had a handful of parents that were even interested. And once we kind of talked to them one on one, they had other options. So we don't offer anything on Monday, but that is something that I think we will. We will kind of revisit. We're also kind of kicking around, you know, you have kids that are. Probably need some extra interventions and some extra things, so we. We may possibly offer some things on those Mondays for those kids. And we would pay, you know, we would, of course, pay staff additional, additional money to come in on those Mondays and do some things like that. So, you know, that's kind of something we'll circle. We kind of want to circle back to and our leadership teams are kind of looking at that right now as far as next year if that's something we want. So, so far, I don't, I don't have anything real negative yet that I can zone in on it at least.
[00:12:11] Speaker A: And Doctor Watkins, your plan, their indicator is also to go Tuesday through Friday, correct?
[00:12:18] Speaker C: We're going to go Tuesday through Friday. We found, you know, as we looked at this through our research, a lot of your doctor's offices and places that, you know, our teachers and parents make frequent appointments at are closed on Fridays. So to, again, you know, we want, you know, the kids in the class and the teachers in the class.
And so Monday was the day that we settled on to be off to allow them to make those appointments that are, that are regularly scheduled by, you know, by parents and teachers.
As a negative to the four day, as looking at it, I have, I'm like Marian, I have not seen any really negative from the four day week and haven't really, the research that we're seeing is, is not showing any glaring negative. One of the things that I would keep an eye on would be the length of the school day, especially for the young kids.
And it's not that, you know, not that bad. Just being we extended about an hour from what we would normally be on a traditional calendar. So it's not that bad. But the elementary is planning some, you know, some breaks in the afternoons, a snack time and a few things like that to kind of combat some of the things that we're seeing as concerns from our survey with our parents. We got some feedback from our community and some of our board members about the length of the school day. So we're addressing that. We're also addressing, we are going on Monday, so we're calling it smart Mondays. So we are offering enrichment opportunities and tutoring opportunities for those students that want to attend on Mondays.
[00:14:18] Speaker A: So you do will offer some options for working parents who can't arrange other forms of childcare.
[00:14:27] Speaker C: There is absolutely, that was the second concern that was through our parent surveys last year. Now we did not do a parent survey this year because we had done one last year. And this has kind of been a rolling process, like I said, for about four years now as we've tried to make this switch over to the four day. And so, yes, smart Mondays was definitely a starter point for us.
[00:14:55] Speaker A: And Marianne, you and I talked a couple days ago briefly about this. I think you told me about, there are a few dozen districts now in Arkansas that are doing this.
[00:15:09] Speaker B: Okay. So I found out last night. Cause we did that panel with the University of Arkansas in Missouri state that there are 38 current school districts. And I think we'll. I don't know how many. I mean, there's three more right here in northwest Arkansas. I know there's some others around the state because we've also been communicating with other schools and sharing our calendar and all of that. I think we'll be, I think we'll be north of 50 this fall, which will be about 20% of the state schools going that way. So see how that goes.
[00:15:41] Speaker A: Are there any. I mean, strikes me that they're mostly smaller districts, and, of course, most of the districts in Arkansas are small.
[00:15:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Most of the districts that are. Yeah, they're, they're small. It's a lot of them small, even smaller than us. But we did learn last night that there was one. There's independents.
Missouri, I mean, they have like 30. What did they have, 30,000 kids or they have it there?
[00:16:07] Speaker C: About 30,000 kids.
[00:16:09] Speaker B: How many?
[00:16:10] Speaker C: About 30,000 kids.
[00:16:12] Speaker B: Yeah. So they have gone to the four day week in Missouri. Missouri has quite a few of their districts that have. That have gone this way. So that, that's the first large, very large district. I had heard that that was doing the four day week. So that'd be interesting to see how that goes there.
[00:16:29] Speaker A: I'm sure you've had many education people reach out to you over the course of the past year.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: Yes. Yes. We're happy to share. Other districts shared with me. I know. I reached out to several districts around the state. We even. We visit. I know we visited Mayflower and I think Atkins. I have a good friend that's soup at Bismarck. We've talked over the years, and, you know, we stole from them, and so now people are reaching out to us. We're happy to share. I mean, you know. Yeah.
[00:17:00] Speaker A: All right, well, I really appreciate your time, both of you. It's.
Appreciate the discussion, and good luck moving forward.
[00:17:10] Speaker B: Thank you. Appreciate you. Thank you.
[00:17:13] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:17:14] Speaker A: Have a great day.
[00:17:15] Speaker B: You, too.
[00:17:16] Speaker C: You, too.
[00:17:18] Speaker A: If you're interested in reading more about the four day school week, our education reporter, Al Gaspin, is writing a story on the subject for this weekend. Before I go, I want to mention some other stories we have coming your way. Over the next few days, Stacy Bryburn will have a story about new beginnings, a transitional housing community in Fayetteville and its plans to provide medical respite units for unhoused residents who have been discharged from the hospital.
Thomas Ascente reports on a plan to expand a mile long stretch of Arkansas 102 in the heart of Centerton, and when we can expect to see that plan come to fruition.
Ron Wood is writing about Ozark Regional Transit Authority implementing the region's first inner city bus route, which they're calling the Benville Rogers Exchange.
Leah Fletcher attended a public forum this week in Cave Springs about the development of that town's master plan for downtown. She'll report on what went on there. And from the River Valley, Monica Brick reports on the latest in the Fort Smith School district's efforts to determine who's to blame for multiple drainage system failures at the Peak Innovation center.
And in other school related news, Sadie Lysicero brings us a story on a greenhouse purchased by the Van Buren School district. Our what's up cover story this weekend is on the stage production of into the woods April 5 through the 14th at the newly renovated Victory Theater in Rogers. That's just one of the many entertainment options you can read about in what's up. And of course, we'll have all the sports coverage you could ask for, from high school to college to the pros. All of this and more will be available to our subscribers on our tablet and smartphone apps and at our websites, nWA online.com and rivervalleydemocraticgazette.com Dot know the news is a weekly podcast brought to you by the newsrooms of the Northwest Arkansas Democrat Gazette and River Valley Democrat Gazette. Again, I'm Dave Perozyk, your podcast host this week. Thanks as always, for listening. And don't forget to check us out next Friday for the next know the news edition. Until then, have a great weekend and take care, everybody.
