Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to this week's edition of the know the news podcast, a production of the northwest Arkansas democrat gazette newsroom. I'm Dave Perozic, your host this week, and I'm pleased to be joined in the studio by a trio of students from Benville High School. They have an interesting story to tell about some research they've conducted related to heart failure assessment, and I'm going to let them tell you more about that.
But first, let's introduce them. Guys, do you want to go around and tell us your names?
[00:00:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm Sai Varun taja ella Gundala and I go by Varun and I'm a high school student at BHS a twelveTH grader.
[00:00:39] Speaker C: My name is Aditya. I'm a part of Benville High School. I'm a senior and I'm part of the Ignite Tech strand.
[00:00:44] Speaker D: My name is Sarthai Chitaridi. We're all part of Benville High School and the Ignite program.
[00:00:50] Speaker A: Great.
So you three have known each other for a while, I take it?
[00:00:57] Speaker D: Yes, for sure.
[00:00:58] Speaker C: Yeah, I think we were like obviously we're class fans before, but this research kind of like, got us closer, working as a team and being a part of the team.
[00:01:06] Speaker B: Yeah, we're always together right now.
[00:01:12] Speaker A: So probably a dumb question and I'm full of dumb, but I take it you all have an interest in medicine or something related to it and have for some time.
[00:01:23] Speaker C: Yeah, initially my interest was just machine learning and more AI based, but I think this research kind of opened my horizons for seeing more how I can apply this computer science to different strands. And this medical strand was a really appealing strand, seeing how this research could help the real world. And I feel like the past couple of months that we're working on this kind of opened my eyes into a different strength and how it could affect that.
[00:01:46] Speaker D: Yeah, I think for finding that intersection between tech and medicine was really a big thing for us because we always hear about it, but actually applying it in a scenario in the research we're a part of was something interesting. And I guess when you're a part of Tech, you're always coding for something greater. And for him, that was Adi, that was the medical strand. And for both of us, when we were trying to do some medical research, we have to go through and create ML models and get help from Adi to learn about different graphs and different genes that are more prevalent. So that intersection is something that's really interested us throughout.
[00:02:20] Speaker B: Yeah, and it's almost like the flip side from Adi, we were always in Med and we really enjoyed it. And then when we got into this research, we got opened up to the tech side as well. And now we're exploring tech as well and kind of seeing that Tech and Med really have that intersection that really allow it to prosper into something better.
[00:02:41] Speaker A: Okay, so give us an overview of what you're actually doing and what you've been doing for the past several months, is it? Yeah.
[00:02:54] Speaker B: Okay, so we've been at this for quite the while now. This kind of started, I would say last year, in January, I would say. Yeah. And that's kind of where me and Sarthak initially we contacted Mr. Richardson, our professor, and slowly Adi started to come onto the team. And definitely at the beginning there was a learning curve. We didn't know exactly what we were doing, but we slowly got a hang of it. And initially what Mr. Richardson presented us with is this data set from Magnet, which is basically this repository that has a bunch of information on a bunch of heart failing patients and a lot of dilated myopathy related diseases and everything in that set. And from that we were able to get a huge data set that had a lot of information. And it was really that process of trying to understand this information, what we could do with this information. And it was kind of like this thing that was on the side that we did and we were just like, we're going about it, trying to understand what everything was doing. And we didn't really have a set goal in mind when we initially started with this data set, we didn't exactly know what we were trying to do with it, but it was that initial stage of just understanding, learning, and figuring out exactly what we were going to do with it. And I would say it took us a while, but I would say after four or five months, after understanding the entire situation and getting ourselves acquainted with Dilated Cardiomyopathy, all the industry words that are being used today, and then Aditya getting his ability to learn about what the data set was and what the data inside the data set was. And so once we did all of that together, we were able to get and figure out that we could maybe use this to find biomarkers that could be then used in the industry today, that clinicians can use to help identify heart failure, especially DCM at an earlier stage and have potentially a better prognosis for them.
[00:04:51] Speaker A: Okay. And if you could define DCM and biomarkers for us, that would probably be helpful to our listeners.
[00:05:01] Speaker D: Okay, so Dilated Cardiomyopathy is a certain heart injury where the left ventricular wall on the bottom left of the heart swells up. So the wall gets thinner and it becomes harder for that left ventricle because that's the part that pumps most of the blood throughout the body and it has to use a lot of power, so it has a thicker wall. So when that wall thins up, it becomes a lot harder for it to pump blood throughout the body, which can then cause heart failure, or as we call it, DCM induced heart failure. So our goal is to try to find biomarkers like genes, so we find significant genes through the ML model and find what protein that gene codes for. Once we find that, we see if that's already a biomarker that's been discovered, because the end goal of finding these biomarkers is personalized medicine for patients. That's the future of medicine. And this is just one step for us to getting there. So, yeah, finding the biomarkers and using that for seeing how DCM could start in patients or how DCM could cause heart failure with those biomarkers.
[00:06:02] Speaker B: Yeah. And just a little bit more in the side of the definition of a biomarker. Basically, we're looking at these genes and we're looking at their expression rates and trying to see so we have a bunch of non failing patients, and you look at how this gene is expressed within them, and we are like, okay, we have this set standard. Like, they're expressed about this much. And then we look at a DCM patient, and on a regular basis, this gene might be overly expressed. It might have a higher level of expression or maybe a lower level expression. It's not expressed nearly as much. And then we can use these as standards. And if there's a statistical backing toward it from our model, our model will use this as a predictive tool to see if maybe with an array of all these genes, it could be used as a predictive tool to say it is used to identify if this patient might have DCM. And so from that, then we were able to be like, okay, yeah, this person might have DCM. And then we would be like, this is because this gene has this predictive ability, and then we'd identify that it's potentially a biomarker.
[00:07:06] Speaker C: So, yeah, I think just to add up on that, our data is really vast and diverse from just, like, physical properties of a human being, such as their age, race, height, weight, and their smoking, their hypertension, diabetes, or their ventricle masses to their genetic genetic account data. So we have 57,000 genes of each patient. I think we have 333 patients in our database. So, yeah, it's just how we can compute that data to analyze these genes and how these work towards and contribute towards dialitic cardiomyopathy. And we've been kind of finding biomarkers, how genes work together, how one can work with different gene and contributes together, and finding genes for dietary cardiomyopathy.
[00:07:50] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. So you are ignite students at Benville High School. Ignite is kind of a career focused program yeah, thank you. Of the Benville School district.
But you're working with a UA professor, which you mentioned, Dr. Richardson.
[00:08:14] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:08:15] Speaker A: So help me understand how you got involved with him.
[00:08:22] Speaker C: So I feel like this research was kind of like outside Ignite initially. It was all different for all of us. We didn't get together initially. So for just I was networking kind of one of my friends, professor networking with one of his friends. And that's how I got in touch with Dr. Richardson and got this yeah.
[00:08:41] Speaker D: For both of us through Ignite. We got to go to a tech summit last year in around October, and we were able to talk to we were actually speaking to a doctor over there who was one of the keynote speakers. And that's when Professor Richardson came up to us, and he asked a little bit about us. And he was new to the area. He was a new professor here at the U of A, so he asked us if we would like to take his card and hopefully reach out and learn more about research and do summer research with him. Back then, it was a foreign topic to us, but now I think we're at the stage where we're a little more proficient with the word research, and we've gone to that point.
[00:09:16] Speaker B: Yeah. And in terms of Ignite, ignite's definitely been that thing that has helped facilitate the ability to have these opportunities. We were able to have the time and resources to help further our research and have those abilities. That's definitely what Ignite has offered us. Yeah.
[00:09:35] Speaker D: I mean, I think Ignite always touches on what you put in is what you get out of it. And using that to find passions outside of the general school classes and conducting research like this, that was always the goal for us. And I think this is a great opportunity we've landed on with the U of A and working as a team together.
[00:09:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:53] Speaker C: Especially our teachers. They've been specialized for these things, like our tech teachers and our medical teachers. They've been really helpful on this research because I feel like if we didn't have their help, we wouldn't have come this far, because we're just high school students with no knowledge about this stuff. We've been working with them, and moreover, we've connected with some PhD students and doctors who have kind of worked with us. And I feel like without their help, we wouldn't have come this far in the research.
[00:10:17] Speaker B: But yeah, it was definitely the abilities and the resources the academic community has provided us is what led us to get this far.
[00:10:29] Speaker A: So are you being paid for your research, or are you getting any credit?
[00:10:38] Speaker C: So the research gets funded only when we get investors or someone sees potential in this research. And the part we're working on right now is kind of like just the starting part. So I feel like initially, once we get it recognized for this research published and start making some progress, we can get investors and people who are funding us. But for now, it's unpaid, and we don't have any investors on board right now. So it's unfunded part for now. So we're not going to pay as of now.
[00:11:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Our research, mostly it comes from Mr. Richardson, and he kind of gave us a status, and it was like something that we really used initially as this trying to get into research, trying to figure out how research works right, and trying to go through that process and everything. But slowly it turned into something that we never even expected. We were able to find biomarkers, have something that is potentially something that other people could use and other people could build off of our ideas.
[00:11:30] Speaker C: Yeah, I think getting paid wasn't, like, the first concern for either of us. I think it was just experience. And working with Dr. Richardson, that's a really big thing, him being a professor. He's had a lot of experience in this field, in this industry, like, a lot of publication, a lot of work in this industry. Having him as a mentor and just working for him is a really big thing.
Initially, we didn't even talk about the paid part. And, yeah, my goal for this part wasn't being paid or working for someone. It was just learning more stuff about this and getting more just diving deeper in this industry and learning more about this.
[00:12:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I feel like none of our goals when we initially got in here was, oh, we want to get published, we want to do this, we want to do that. It was more like this thing that we wanted to learn. We tried to figure out how research works, and the main thing was trying to get this quality research and trying to learn how to do quality research, because obviously this world of academia is the ability of what has allowed us to really springboard humanity to this far. And so I feel like research, that quality, that ability that we're learning to provide quality research to the academic world is really what we've learned from all of this.
[00:12:40] Speaker A: How much time do you guys put.
[00:12:42] Speaker D: Into oh, well, there was no smooth ship, of course. I remember over summer, Vern and I, before Adi came on board, we were working on a model which did not work out. So we had our moments of taking a break and trying to think about how to further the process. But now that we have some valid biomarkers, thanks to Ozzy, we're spending maybe a week, I'd say a good 1015 hours trying to get this paper form for me, too.
[00:13:08] Speaker C: Initially, it was really slow because I was not sure what I was doing.
I hadn't networked as much with the doctors and the PhD students, but I feel like initially, it's been a process. Initially I had no help on this, but eventually, having meetings with my doctor, him connecting me to more students, more PhD students, more doctors learning more information about these, I've kind of gained so much knowledge about this that I could figure out what I was doing. I feel like over the past eight months, it's gotten, like, a lot, the progress, and I was working maybe in an hour or two every day or something like that. But fast forward to not, and we're spending a couple of hours, like three, 4 hours every day nowadays for sure. I stay not for school or I could work at night sometimes and yeah, it's definitely been a process from the start.
[00:13:51] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. In the beginning it was a bunch of obstacles. We constantly had one roadblock after the other and it was like, what do we do? We didn't know what to do. And it was like this whole process of trying to get over those obstacles.
We ended up realizing we have to contact a bunch of other people. Sometimes the information just isn't readily there and we trying to figure out what maybe a novel gene might do and then we get stuck into like, oh my God, what do we do here? And so it's just like we end up having all these different things that all these obstacles we had to get through. And so it was definitely like this roller coaster for us, but we've definitely enjoyed it. And right now we've been spending hours per day trying to get this even better.
[00:14:37] Speaker A: Well, it sounds like a lot of work.
Where is the end of this project?
[00:14:47] Speaker C: I think there's no end to this because it's a really vast research Dr. Richardson's carrying out. He has a lot of PhD students and students working on this and the thing we're doing right now is just like a part of it, like a really small part of it. Working with dialic cardiomyopathy heart failure is a really vast thing with a lot of data on that and yeah, our thing is just the tip of it and just like a part of the really vast research.
[00:15:09] Speaker D: Yeah, we're just touching the waters of pitching our part into what the native researchers do throughout the world. So us finding these biomarkers is just the next step into gaining personalized medicine, and I think that's the end goal. But for us, it would be understanding the application of the biomarkers and the genes that we'd found. And we're currently working on that. So I think that would be the end of just this part of the project.
[00:15:33] Speaker B: Yeah, so far we've been able to find those biomarkers, which is definitely like, okay, that's one step. But obviously this can go much further in. We're able to look at our phenotypic data of our patients and now using the phenotypic data, which would be like the data that is given about the patients. Right. And so we're thinking about expanding this into maybe the further reaches of, I would say ethical based sorry, Ethic, sorry, race based biomarkers. And so that would be like a potential thing to have even more personalized health care, have these biomarkers that are based off of races and ethnicities. And so that was something that this research could go funnel into like even a more personalized setting. And so obviously this could also go into many other realms and different applications, maybe devices. And so we were just like this is just like the tip of the iceberg right now and definitely we can continue into something much further.
[00:16:36] Speaker C: Yeah, I think we've just found the biomarkers for now, but I think there's like a wrong road to this because identifying new Hub genes, how genes work together and going deeper, like Warren said, the race the patient comes from and just deeper under that. So, yeah, there's an end to this research. I feel you can just keep going and identifying new biomarkers, new Hub genes and new things. Biomarkers for this.
[00:16:59] Speaker B: Yeah. And right now we're looking at genes on maybe a single base scale. Like we're looking at one gene at a time, but eventually we're thinking about even looking at the genes in a perspective of how maybe multiple genes might work together to create like maybe this group of genes that could be an effective, more predictive biomarker group are set together.
[00:17:22] Speaker A: Had you had any kind of experience like this before you started on this?
[00:17:28] Speaker D: I think that was actually the biggest challenge for us, not having something like this before because there's no algorithm or there's no syllabus like there is in a classroom. One roadblock leads to the next and one finding leads to the next. And that's something like we've never seen before after twelve years of schooling, definitely that's prepared us to be as advanced as where we are right now. But just doing this independently and having that motivation, it's a new experience for sure.
[00:17:55] Speaker C: Yeah, I feel like me too. I've never touched a medical strand as deep as I have in this research. I was just kind of based on the tip of computer science, just like some simple courses online and all that part. But I think this research has kind of got me like deep into computer science and working with the medical students in strand, it's kind of got me a lot deeper and delved into these strands that I had from before.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: And I'm sure it's taught you a lot about teamwork.
[00:18:22] Speaker C: Definitely.
[00:18:23] Speaker D: Yeah, for sure. Because all of our strengths, like Vernon was saying previously, they overlap and we've had to learn how to split the work, of course. And Adi finding those and we telling him what we need next for the next genes or what different graphs we need to add to the paper. So of course, lots of teamwork.
[00:18:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:41] Speaker C: I think the parts this research works on just works parallel because the tech and the medical part, I feel like they just work together because I make the model, assess the model and what the model spits out is kind of worked with them. So I feel like not just one singular thing wouldn't work just individually. I feel like they're just working parallel. My model is spitting out data and they've been diagnosing and analyzing the data and getting findings from that. So, yeah, it's just a parallel process for us. So I feel like without a team. Individually, we wouldn't be able to get this far or even work with this.
[00:19:14] Speaker B: Data center, but yeah, and definitely even in terms of soft skills, we were able to. Sarthak's really organized, and it's like, I have the abilities to do the research and trying to find things online and everything, and Adi is very resourceful, and just all those things combined has really allowed us to prosper as a team.
[00:19:38] Speaker A: We talked about the Ignite program. I've done some reporting on that program myself in the past.
What you're doing now have happened without Ignite, do you think, for Varun?
[00:19:54] Speaker D: I don't think we would have gone to the tech sum if it wasn't for Ignite, so we would have never met the professor. It was just being at the right place at the right time. And definitely we've had the support of teachers. We've had VR models in the Anatomosh table, which has shown 3D models of the heart, which we've been able to see. So there's definitely been a lot of support. It would have been more difficult without Ignite.
[00:20:14] Speaker B: Yeah, especially they've rented out computers to us, and we've had the ability to contact the teachers if we needed any questions answered about dilated cardiomyopathy or anything related to the heart. We have one instructor that's been working with Mercy. She worked with Mercy before, and she's helped us a lot with learning about the heart and trying to understand it in a biological perspective as well, like all the mechanisms that go into the heart, it's a lot of complex things that work together to make the heart function.
[00:20:46] Speaker C: Yeah, I feel like for me too. This is my first year Ignite. It's just been, I think, two months now. But I feel like before Ignite, the process was really slow and a lot of obstacles between, but the Ignite kind of gave us the backbone for it, kind of helped us work together because the workspace is really good. Obviously, we can work there after school to just kind of research teachers and the resources. That's the best part about Ignite.
[00:21:10] Speaker A: And you're all seniors. Yes.
Tell us what your plans are post graduation.
[00:21:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I plan to go to a four year college, and after that, try to go into med school. I've been looking really into medical school and trying to be a doctor.
[00:21:31] Speaker C: Yeah, I think I really want to computer science in college. I want to major in computer science, and I think after this research, it kind of, like, opened my mind about how other strands can work with computer science. So I've kind of just been exploring computer science with business, computer science with medical, and how I can take on a different subject and kind of work with those. But yeah, computer science is my main major for now, but I'd love to mine on some different subject and kind of work with that.
[00:21:58] Speaker D: Yeah. Right now, we're all just applying to college and seeing where we get in, but I also plan on going to a four year university, getting my undergrad, and then hopefully progressing into med school.
[00:22:10] Speaker A: It's an exciting and busy time, sounds like, for you, for sure.
[00:22:14] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's been a lot trying to balance research also with college apps coming right around the corner. Ras, your regular action, they're all coming up right now. And so it's been a lot of work on our shoulders, but we've really enjoyed this process. We really have.
[00:22:31] Speaker C: I feel like this research got me connected with so many people. Initially I didn't have any help on my side, but this research, I have three PhD students and two doctors working with us. And the best part is how we've gotten so close with them, them being our mentors for this. So I've been getting so much help just not for this research, but for colleges.
They got students too, so help not just for research, but college too, and other parts too. So it's been really good and this kind of has aided me for this process of college applications too.
[00:23:02] Speaker B: Yeah, it's really surprising how helpful the academic community really is.
[00:23:08] Speaker A: And just to clarify, I know that we brought it up with Dr. Richardson and the PhD students that you're talking about are all from the U of.
[00:23:16] Speaker C: A, so actually it's not. So we've just been networking so much that we've kind of built a really big kind of team now that's been working with this and helping on this. So one student is Dr. Richardson's old student, and one of the doctors was a mentor of my friends and one of the students. And I don't know how to explain this, but it's like a really big circle and a lot of people been kind of helping us with this.
[00:23:44] Speaker D: But yeah, one connection leads to the next, and Dr. Richardson has provided that platform for us to springboard to the next person or to the next website to find more information.
[00:23:55] Speaker B: It's not necessarily just from the US. There's researchers from all over the world that have been helping.
[00:24:01] Speaker C: Yeah, last week I think we met a doctor in India and he's been working on something similar to this research on genetics and how machine learning can affect that. So I feel like working with him was really good experience. We'll sort of touch with him. He's been helping us out with this, sending us research papers and just clarifying our doubts. So it's been a really good experience connecting with these doctors and kind of working with them. But yeah, definitely just the aspect of networking has been really helpful because I think I really done these soft skills, kind of like trying to talk to more doctors, talk to more people, just emailing these people who have published these papers and they're getting back to us. That's how we kind of got on this network and got in touch with them.
[00:24:44] Speaker A: Wow. Well, fascinating work you're doing. And I really want to thank you for coming down to our studio here in Fayetteville and talking to us.
Really glad to meet you and talk to you, and good luck on everything.
[00:25:01] Speaker D: Thank you for having me.
[00:25:02] Speaker B: Thank you for having me.
[00:25:05] Speaker A: You can read about this trio of Benville high school students this weekend in the Northwest Arkansas Democrat gazette. Let me share with you a brief preview of some other stories we have coming your way. The city of Fayetteville is considering whether to connect two parts of Stern Street that currently end in dead ends, but neighbors aren't crazy about the idea. Stacey Ryburn will have that story. The city of Benville is seeking feedback on Greenhouse road safety improvements through an open house the city is hosting on Monday. Mike Jones will tell us about these proposed changes.
And the Fort Smith School Board is continuing its work on determining who's to blame for ongoing drainage system failures at the school district's Peak Innovation Center.
Monica Brick brings us up to date on that in the River Valley Democrat Gazette.
Also, we'll have a story about a mass casualty drill at the Arkansas Colleges of Health Education campus in Fort Smith this week. Thomas Asante will fill us in on how it went and what those involved hope to gain from it.
Also, check out our arts and entertainment offerings this weekend in Sunday's What's Up section. Becca Martin Brown will have a preview of this year's NWA gridiron Show, a comedy sketch show put on by journalists, former journalists, and student journalists. This year's show goes on stage October 6 and 7th at the Butterfield Trail Village performance center in Fayetteville. A few other stories you'll see include one on the new executive director of Sona, a preview of Shinedown's concert next week at the Amp, as well as a preview of Wild Encounters, a burlesque show at the Meteor in Benville next week. All this, plus all the calendar listings you can imagine Sunday in WhatsApp. All this and more will be available to our subscribers on our tablet and smartphone apps and at our websites, nwaonline.com and Rivervalliedemocracazette.com. To those of you already subscribing, thank you for your support of local journalism. If you're not a subscriber, I hope you'll consider being one. We have a special offer for our podcast listeners. Just visit nwaonline.com podcast 23 to get started. You can also click on the subscribe button on our websites, nwanline.com and Rivervalleddemocratgazette.com, or call us at 479-68-4550 Know. The news is a weekly podcast brought to you by the newsrooms of the northwest Arkansas democrat gazette and river valley democrat gazette. Thank you as always, for listening. Again, I'm Dave Perozic, your podcast host this week. Have a great weekend and until next Friday so long.
